Cleisthenes leads by 8.7 pts · 2 figures compared

Politician · Ancient

Emperor · Medieval
Each figure is scored on 6 dimensions (0—100 scale) based on structured historical data: Military (10%), Political (20%), Influence (20%), Legacy (20%), Leadership (15%), Strategy (15%). The weighted total produces the final ranking.
Scores are computed from structured sub-indicators in the database. Scale factors adjust for era (Ancient ×0.85, Modern ×1.0) and civilization size (Eastern ×1.05, Other ×0.80) to account for differences in population and military scale.
Comparisons are limited to 2—3 figures to ensure readability and statistical meaningfulness.
±5 points per dimension — Sub-scores are derived from historical records with inherent uncertainty. Two figures within 5 points on a dimension should be considered roughly equivalent in that area.
±3 points overall — The weighted combination of 6 dimensions produces a total score with approximately ±3 points of uncertainty. Differences of less than 3 points are not statistically significant— the figures are effectively tied.
Our six-dimension data-driven scoring system compares Military, Political, Influence, Legacy, Leadership, and Strategy to determine the ranking among Cleisthenes, Louis XI of France. See the full score breakdown on this page.
Scores are computed from structured historical sub-indicators with era and civilization scale factors. The system has approximately ±3 points of uncertainty per dimension. Differences under 3 points are not statistically significant.
Cleisthenes, with the support of the Alcmaeonid family and Spartan assistance, led the overthrow of the tyrant Hippias, son of Peisistratus. This ended the Peisistratid tyranny in Athens and opened the way for democratic reforms.
Cleisthenes reorganized the Athenian citizen body into ten new tribes based on demes, replacing the old four Ionian tribes. He established the Council of 500 (Boule) and introduced ostracism, creating a system of isonomia (equal rights) that is considered the foundation of Athenian democracy.
Cleisthenes instituted ostracism, a procedure allowing Athenian citizens to vote annually to exile a prominent citizen deemed a threat to democracy for ten years. This mechanism aimed to prevent the rise of a new tyrant and stabilize the democratic system.
Louis XI established a royal postal service, creating a network of relay stations for rapid communication across France. This system improved administrative efficiency and royal control over the realm.
Louis XI defeated the League of the Public Weal, a coalition of rebellious nobles led by the Duke of Burgundy and the Duke of Berry. The victory at the Battle of Montlh
Louis XI imprisoned his own minister, Cardinal Jean Balue, for treason after discovering his secret correspondence with Charles the Bold. Balue was held in an iron cage for over a decade, demonstrating Louis's ruthless treatment of disloyal officials.
Louis XI provided financial and diplomatic support to the Swiss Confederacy in their war against Charles the Bold of Burgundy. This alliance contributed to Burgundy's defeat and the eventual collapse of the Burgundian state.
Louis XI signed the Treaty of Picquigny with King Edward IV of England, ending the Hundred Years' War. The treaty included a payment to Edward IV to withdraw his invading army, securing peace and saving France from invasion.
After the death of Charles the Bold at the Battle of Nancy, Louis XI seized the Duchy of Burgundy and other Burgundian territories. This acquisition significantly expanded the French crown's lands and reduced Burgundian power.
If you're ranking state-builders by how cleanly they destroyed aristocratic power, Louis XI mops the floor with Cleisthenes. Cleisthenes basically gave the nobles a participation trophy by letting them keep their wealth and just reshuffling tribes. Louis actually broke their spines—executing the Duke of Nemours, crushing the League of the Public Weal, and seizing Burgundy. Democracy is nice, but real power comes from royal guillotines, not voting reforms.
数据党看历史,Cleisthenes的部落重组确实漂亮,但他的人口基数才几万人;路易十一控制的是1500万人口的法国。你说民主伟大?那雅典公民里只有10%有投票权,女性、奴隶、外邦人全被排除。路易至少用集权统一了税收、法律和货币,实际改善的效率人数远超雅典。别吹情怀,算算真实影响力。
One word: demes. Cleisthenes didn't just tinker with voting blocks—he fundamentally reimagined what it meant to be Athenian by shattering kinship-based identity. No more scions of noble families; now you're a citizen because you're from Acharnai or Alopeke. That's a philosophical earthquake. Louis just played courtier politics with the Parlement and noble marriages. Sure, he centralized, but he never changed the feudal soul of France. Cleisthenes rewrote the soul of a city.
我读了下原文,夸Cleisthenes民主的人从来不提他放逐政敌的手段。他用ostracism把有威胁的人直接赶出城邦,不需要审判。这跟路易十一的暗杀手段有什么本质区别?只不过一个用贝壳投票,一个用毒药和绞刑架。别假装道德上有高下——两人都是铁腕清洗派,只是包装不同。说Cleisthenes是民主之父的人,一定是忘了被放逐的阿里斯蒂德斯是怎么被赶走的。